[Witchking]

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This is a subject that from time to time feeds certain doubts that I've about posting stuffs that were released and reissued from 2010 onwards, and today with a request from Thrashoholic this doubt permeated my mind again.
One of the things I like most about this forum is the fact that users provide relevant and interesting information about any type of recording. Thanks to this, I became aware of several albums that had different mastering and mixing that was reissued few time after their official release (or that never got reissued again). Bands such as Carnivore, Wrath (US), Holy Terror, Destructor (US), Living Death, Slaughter (Can), Messiah (Che), Sepultura, were some examples of these curiosities that often go unnoticed by most people.
Fortunately, over the last few years I have seen a certain interest in this topic, even generating good discussions and requests for this type of records. However, some of these requests / stuffs conflict with the forum's third law, which I believe everyone is familiar with:

• REQUESTS
▸ Official 2010-2023 releases and reissues is strictly forbidden to post or request.

It's really cool to see that many recordings are being officially reissued in different places around the world. However, there are still "versions" that, for various reasons, were never officially reissued. I wonder if these versions would be the exception to this rule? For example, Sepultura's Arise has been reissued from time to time (the last time was in 2021 on vinyl), but the rough mix was only released once (in 1990/1991) and was never officially reissued again. The same goes for the official Outrage remix requested by Thrashoholic. Their original mix was remastered and reissued in 2013, but the 1991 remix wasn't. However, the Roadracer/Roadrunner remix of Holy Terror's Terror and Submission was rejected here on the forum, and it was never officially reissued (the versions that were reissued are the original mix by Under One Flag).

I don't know if I managed to make myself understood regarding my question (and I apologize if I failed), but my intention here is to try to understand and help you better understand one of the most important rules of the forum. What can and cannot be posted. It's a very peculiar case, but it's at least pertinent (IMO).

And also sorry if I created this topic in the wrong place.

[Thrashoholic]

Having sort of instigated this question after making this specific request, I feel somewhat obligated to voice my opinion on the matter.

First and foremost, the forum rules are clear. I found the original mix posted here despite it having been reissued in the past 15 years. But as mentioned by Witchking, my request was regarding a very specific remix version only released once (over 30 years ago) and which is very hard to find nowadays. From my point of view it made perfect sense to request such a rarity.

Now, is it not the same album? Yes, and no. In this instance, Outrage had remixes done for their first three albums back in 1991 and the differences between the original mixes and the remixes are like night and day. One could argue the remixes are so vastly different they almost sound like re-recordings. Are all remixes done by bands this different? Certainly not. And for that reason they shouldn't be treated or viewed the same, either.

I think the question we have to ask ourselves here is: if a specific version/product is no longer officially available for purchase, then what harm does it cause the band by sharing it compared to buying an old second hand copy?

Another detail I'd like to address here is availability. I'm certain most of you know the general scarcity of Japanese bands and their works in the west. Looking at Outrage's reissues it's noticeable that they're SHM CDs, a rather generic type of reissues done by labels and being exclusively available in Japan (just as the original pressings were in this case). Although the original mixes were reissued as late as 2013 I've no idea if it's still available for purchase today, simply because Japanese music stores aren't catered toward westerners. For that I'd argue these reissues are quite rare themselves as well.

Finally I'm sure most of you are band supporters and collectors, just like myself. Sharing is merely a way of discovering new music which may or may not result in obtaining the real thing depending on your liking of it, no? I can't even estimate the amount of stuff I've found on forums like this which resulted in purchases (and thus supporting the bands). In the case of Outrage, a band I just recently discovered, I found that I like the remixes more and they're not available. It's still possible to support them by buying the official alternative, but to then also find this specific remix and possibly pay an insane amount of money for it (none of it which will reach the band) is definitely good grounds for sharing in my book. Once again, what harm does it do?

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[otcmetal]

The ONLY reason I'm commenting is to point out that the remixed version of Holy Terror - Terror and Submission actually has been reissued. It's included on the "El Revengo" compilation/dual disc cd from 2007, which is also part of the "Total Terror" box from 2017.

Look in the additional notes section:

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/H ... ngo/133667

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[Witchking]

I think the question we have to ask ourselves here is: if a specific version/product is no longer officially available for purchase, then what harm does it cause the band by sharing it compared to buying an old second hand copy?

I agree with a lot of things you expressed here and my question is related to this question that you emphasized here. When I uploaded the rough mix edition of Sepultura's Arise, I left some comments sowing my doubts, and as I didn't get any negatives about it, I thought there were no problems. Today, through your request, my doubt came to light again, and fortunately I had no problems with the post being rejected. However, my intention in creating this topic was exactly to draw the attention of a moderator (or even Strappado) to this peculiar theme and try to get an official response about it.

Another detail I'd like to address here is availability. I'm certain most of you know the general scarcity of Japanese bands and their works in the west. Looking at Outrage's reissues it's noticeable that they're SHM CDs, a rather generic type of reissues done by labels and being exclusively available in Japan (just as the original pressings were in this case). Although the original mixes were reissued as late as 2013 I've no idea if it's still available for purchase today, simply because Japanese music stores aren't catered toward westerners. For that I'd argue these reissues are quite rare themselves as well.

I also haven't heard these 2013 reissues, but as they were released by Polydor, I don't doubt that they are the remaster (made based on the original mix) from 2007. This 2007 version, unless I'm mistaken, is on the band's Spotify.
But I agree with you about the difficulty in obtaining stuffs from Japanese bands, although nowadays it has become much better to acquire things that until then were released on a low scale and were almost impossible to acquire from outside of Japan.

The ONLY reason I'm commenting is to point out that the remixed version of Holy Terror - Terror and Submission actually has been reissued. It's included on the "El Revengo" compilation/dual disc cd from 2007, which is also part of the "Total Terror" box from 2017.

Thanks for the information! I had no idea that the version on this compilation (El Revengo) could be the US remix (because, in "Total Terror", what is listed as "Terror and Submission" is the original Under One Flag mix). As this compilation (El Revengo) was originally made by an English label, I thought it was the original mix but with the order of the songs changed (similar to what happened with Necronomicon's debut).

The only CD version that I thought had the US remix is this bootleg:

https://www.discogs.com/release/2033739 ... Submission

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[Strappado]

Let's see if I understood this correct and tell what the correct rule is.

Mix > if different from any reissue 2010-2024 - Yes OK to post! that's because it's a different source and different enough to not class it as reissue of an original recording that was released.

A thing though.. remastered stuff, usually not allowed, it's often just enhanced audio or master tape source which should be the same.

If you find the reissue different in some way though or changed, you can always give some infos about that and I/we can look into it.

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