Motorised wrote:Razorwyre is quite good
Motorised wrote:For me, these genres have no melody, the vocal isn't clear. They take their influences from hardcore punk & groove metal. I can't stand either because for me there is no melody. Half of the album "Cowboys From Hell" was brilliant.
If Plácido Domingo and Luciano Pavarotti sung and got a guitar virtuoso with a brilliant drummer I'd be in heaven.
I'm not too phased about what is popular, what is flooded into the market but it's depressing that hardcore punk and groove metal influenced so many bands. I'd be more than happy with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath carbon copies. I personally cannot hear any melody in the music that is why I said that. I do not hate the genre nor do I hate the people that listen to it, I just think it made an adverse affect on the music industry.
Of course flooding of particular genres metal or not, is not a new concept. The record companies have caused a lot of problems I must admit. They produced many bands that sounded the same and just flooded the people with crap which is how we got Poison and other pop metal groups, which became the demise of heavy metal in the mainstream realms. I hope that younger people look back the better bands too.
Unfortunately that is the case and unless we are exposed to other material then most people will listen to mainstream popular rubbish. I must admit some of Bullet For My Valentine's riffing and soloing is quite good but nothing superior.
I'm just saddened that there is a lot of crap out there and talented bands got pushed aside. Tokyo Blade is one that always comes to mind, their first album is a masterpiece.
riptorn wrote:Just to be clear, i'm no fan of the 'groove-metal' or 'core' type bands, it doesn't move me in any way. i'm just playing devil's advocate.
The new fans will always want new bands/styles to call their own and to distinguish themselves from the previous generation.
In my day, i remember getting a hard time from older Metal heads for liking Motorhead or Tank, because those bands were perceived as 'just a bloody racket', by many of those who'd grown up on Sabbath, Zep & Budgie.
Same again in the early days of the Thrash scene. The first time i saw Metallica was on the "Master Of Puppets" tour (with Anthrax supporting), the audience was 80% punks who'd embraced the bands because of their speed and power, whilst many older Metallers just didn't get it at all.
You are right about there being a lot of crap out there, and great bands who slip through the cracks, but sadly that too has always been the case.
There is still a lot of great music being made by young bands though, you just need to know where to look.
Try some of these newer acts for size;
VEKTOR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUEN6Hkrc9M
CORSAIR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoSyZWcHY-w
OWL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHgl44HOAGU
MIDNIGHT CHASER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt0VLJS4IM4
VISIGOTH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txaJ9X07PKY
MOON CURSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf1sLzGPjAQ
ASSEMBLY AT DUSK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hat9tvkoFJE
WITCHTOWER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK3QiDGpkmg
The vocals and solo are awesome.Motorised wrote:Metallica were heavier and faster than anyone else at the time (excluding Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax).
I'm surprised the punks would have liked it as it was heavier than punk rock.
I think you're right there, I don't know if there are a lot of great bands now. Back then thrash, speed, power, groove, NWOBHM and hardcore punk were all explored they were new and something really different. What is the next level? I do like DragonForce.
I'm not sure if it is the nostalgia behind it all.
I'm listening to these in chronological order (and thank you for the taking the time for these suggestions):
Vektor - "Outer Isolation" - the vocals hurt my ears but the instrumentation is good.
Corsair - "Of Kings and Cowards" - vocally a lot better but I feel there is something missing. The solo was good though.
Owl - "Feaster From The Stars" - wasn't too bad but I felt it sort of dragged on.
Midnight Chaser - "Rough and Tough" - now this is the sound and style that I like. I was expecting more of a shredding solo though. The lead kicked in at 4:09 which is what I look for. On the side I found a video "Katana - Heart of Tokyo" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oICvpXQmT4 Now that is what I call heavy metal
Visigoth - "Iron Brotherhood" - the song isn't my thing but I downloaded their album "Final Spell" and I quite like the song "Creature of Desire".
Moon Curse - "Black Elk" - I didn't get much of a kick out of it. Instrumentally it's not bad.
Assembly At Dusk ~ "Before This City is Aflame" - I really tried but I couldn't get into it.
Witchtower - "Return to the Witches' Castle (Full EP)" - I like it.
I like Steel Panther (USA) and ReinXeed (Sweden). The only thing I don't like Steel Panther are the extreme sexual ideas. I'm anti-pornography. I do like Death To All But Metal but the rest of the songs I have to skip massive parts of. I also like Black Majesty. For some unknown reason I love the album "Hatebreeder" by Children of Bodom. Instrumentally it is everything I love in an album/song. It's like Power/Thrash/Speed/NWOBHM influences all mixed into one. Somehow I like the vocals, I have never been able to figure it out though. There next album, I don't mind a couple of songs, I like their cover album but apart from that I don't like anything else, excluding the live material from those two albums on "Chaos Ridden Years: Stockholm Knockout Live" and "Tokyo Warhearts". I cannot read the lyrics as death and black metal lyrics disturb me too much.
I have been trying to listen to Jason Newsted's new release "Heavy Metal Music" by Newsted but I just can't get into it. I thought it would be something excellent compared to what Metallica has been releasing for the past twenty years but sadly it isn't.
riptorn wrote:Phew, lots to respond to there.
Regarding the punks liking Metallica ( & Thrash in general) in the 80's, there were a lot of really brutal and fast punk bands back then, (Discharge, GBH, Misfits etc) and many who blurred the line between punk and metal completely like The Blood, Sacrilege, early Onslaught, Broken Bones, D.R.I. etc.
I think a lot of punks embraced the Thrash scene because musically (and often lyrically) there was a lot of common ground. The Thrashers certainly took a lot of inspiration from the punk and hardcore scenes too, just look at the cover versions they did and the band t-shirts they wore back then.
I'm glad you liked at least a few of my band suggestions, most of the bands i mentioned only have demos or self-financed releases at the moment, so bear that in mind when assessing them. Owl were all in their teens when they recorded 'Feaster From The Stars'!
As you said you enjoyed the Witchtower track, here's a band-sanctioned link to download their demo EP for free:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/me93q ... Castle.rar
Now that i have a better idea of what style of Metal you're into i'd recommend EDGUY if you haven't heard them.
Here's their 2006 'Rocket Ride' album:
http://youtu.be/wWULxZcWdAw?t=8m1s
They have that slightly cheesy melodic Euro-Metal 'widdly' window-dressing like Helloween or C.O.B. or Dragonforce, but they have undeniably great memorable songs under all the bluster too. The singer's got a really strong, melodic and versatile voice too.
See what you think.
I think they've got maybe 10 or so albums out.
Were you joking with your comments about Steel Panther's lyrical content?
You do know they're a spoof/joke band right?
As they're ripping the piss out of the 80's hair metal scene, (and kind of paying tribute to it at the same time), all the OTT sexual stuff in the lyrics is meant to be ridiculous and humourous.
They all cut their teeth in cover bands like Atomic Punks and Metal Shop, before becoming Metal Skool which introduced their own songs and all the humourous elements. They released an album about 10 years ago as Metal Skool called 'Hole Patrol', before changing their name to Steel Panther.
Some of their stuff is reasonably amusing if you only hear it once or twice, but beyond that i can't really understand the appeal. The 'joke' wears thin pretty quick.
I was, like you, disappointed by Newsted's new stuff, the only song that really did 'it' for me was 'Godsnake' which has a kinda Trouble style vibe to it.
More material like that and he might be on to something, but the EP and album fall short to my ears.
Sorry i've prattled on for ages again, it always surprises me to see how wide the conversation, opinion and feelings can be about the wonderful world of Metal, so i tend to get carried away.
Motorised wrote:I'll have to have a listen to those bands that you mentioned. I have heard Metallica's version of "Free Speech For The Dumb" but I didn't care for the original version that much. I heard the original of "More I See" and they did more of a hard rock solo which was pretty cool.
I thought thrash wouldn't have been something punks enjoyed because it had a lot of 'heavy metal' in it as well. I know that thrash metal has a lot of inspiration from punk and NWOBHM. I remember hearing there was/is a lot of separation between different genres of music.
I noticed that a few of them were demos. I'll have to listen to them again. Thank you :) I downloaded Witchtower's EP.
I listened to a few songs from the EDGUY's 'Rocket Ride' album and it's awesome! I like what you call "slightly cheesy melodic Euro-Metal 'widdly' window-dressing". I like Helloween, Children of Bodom (prior to 2003) and DragonForce
riptorn wrote:I'll at least try to be a bit briefer this time.
Whilst there was a definite division between the Punk & Metal audiences in the late 70's and early 80's, in my experience that had more or less disappeared by the mid-80's.
I hung around with a lot of punks at the time, and they were listening to a lot of Voivod, Slayer, Metallica and Anthrax then.
Megadeth & Testament didn't seem to appeal to a lot of the punks because of the extended soloing, but the more riffy stuff went over really well.
I could never really get into the 2nd wave UK punk/crossover stuff like Discharge either, but there were some great U.S. bands in that style.
Glad you enjoyed the Edguy stuff, i think they are a lot more versatile (and far better) than a lot of the more well known bands i see them compared to in the press. Those comparisons put me off giving Edguy a proper listen for a long time.
You might also enjoy a Swedish band called Impera, they're slightly more Hard Rock based, but seeing the stuff you enjoy they may appeal to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlOe1Gpx0Z0
Very technical players, but they nail the 'vibe' and 'groove' too, unlike many of their peers.
Glad you found the Witchtower link okay, i think they have a lot of potential. Time will tell.
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80sMetalAddict wrote:I simply can´t stand modern metal. I don´t even think it is worth to call it metal. I got introduced to 70´s and 80´s metal by my father when I was an infant, and all the time along my childhood and growing up I´ve only listened to that and other music from that era. The few new bands I like, plays the "old school" or "classical" style, without the digital production - which I got hell a lot issues with and dislikes very much - and all those unnecessary effects. Bands like Lethal Steel, Morbus Chron and Tungsten Axe.
As I mentioned I dislikes the modern, digital production a lot. I can explain more in detail what I don´t like about it. It makes the music sound plastic and lifeless, compared to the old, classic analog production which delivered a raw and natural sound. As far as I concern the digital studio techniques is just a quick-fix way to achieve the perfection, an example is that you can use "cut and paste"-techniques to make your music so tight and perfect as possible. That is what makes it so life and passionless.
In an analog studio there is no quick-fix ways to perfection, that is the big difference between the two of them. And the difference will also be revealed in the sound.
But I´m sure I shouldn´t like modern metal more even with analog production. That´s not my only issue with it. I just think it isn´t the same thing as back in the 70´s and 80´s. It´s got a new element and other influences which don´t fit my taste of music at all.
riptorn wrote:Totally agree with you both on the subject of modern production techniques.
The amount of compression used and the attendant 'volume wars' have ruined many records for me over the last decade or so.
The new Sabbath album is a good example.
Those original Sabs records had a warmth and 'vibe' to them, it was a major part of the band's sound and appeal.
I wasn't expecting much of the new Sabbath album, but after hearing a few songs in passing and being pleasantly surprised i thought i'd give it a proper listen.
After giving it a good listen, it falls short for me not because of the music, (although a few of the songs aren't that great), but because all the atmosphere has been sucked out by the big shiny production job.
A totally unneccessary production sheen drips off everything, completely nullifying the power from what could have been a most unlikely return to form.
It feels overly sanitised and unnatural to me, where a bare bones approach should have been their direction.
A real shame & an opportunity squandered.
And to go back to Edguy for a second, i'd seen them compared to Helloween a lot which put me right off them initially as i detest Helloween with a passion.
To me Helloween always traded in the least imaginative and cheesy musical cliches in Metal, it's like they were created just to irritate me.
They seemed to have a talent for taking influences from bands i liked and regurgitating them in the most obvious and bland manner imaginable.
I'm not denigrating them for their abilities as players, they're obviously technically gifted individually, but that's one band i'd be happy to never hear again.
Their popularity and longevity never cease to amaze me.
I'm well aware that this is likely not an opinion held by many visitors to this forum, but i just never understood the appeal.
Let the abuse begin.
Motorised wrote:Is there a way to fix the volume problem in the 'volume wars'?
I love the original Black Sabbath and Dio albums! I'll have to listen to the new album but I did hear a couple of songs on iTunes just before it was released and they were streaming it. I thought they were okay but nothing great. I will give it a proper listen though.
I don't understand why they have to have clean and shiny production on heavy metal releases. I like the raw sound of those old releases. I guess bands and record companies think it sounds 'better' and they just put it out and the fans just accept it. I guess since Ozzy Osbourne has been using that modern style, he and the rest of the band decided to use it.
Hopefully the next album will prove to be better for Black Sabbath.
Haha, did you like early Helloween with Kai Hansen at least? I tried getting into their first EP "Helloween" but I just couldn't get into it.
I didn't think they were a very big band outside of Germany or Europe.
I like Helloween's stuff from when they begun until about the late 1990s, in recent years they haven't been my thing.
Haha, you're allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else. You can like who ever you want to. It's a free world!
riptorn wrote:Occasionally you get 'fan fixes' for some of the worst affected records in the 'volume wars', where a fan with the right tech has a go at restoring the sound without the digital clipping. I haven't seen any around for the Sabbath album, but i recall someone fixing Metallica's 'Death Magnetic' when it came out, and listening to that version turned it from a 5 out of 10 album into a solid 7. You often see the 'fan fixes' posted on torrent sites if you use those.
As for Helloween, nah, they just never appealed to me in the slightest. I remember most of my friends going to see them in Edinburgh in '89 (where they recorded some of 'Live In The UK') and turning down a spare free ticket to go, such was my complete disdain for them.
That's probably heresy in some people's books, but i always just found them irritating.
Then Kai Hansen managed to up the ante with Gamma Ray which got on my nerves even more!
A lot of the German HM from that period grated on me for some reason, yet i really enjoyed a lot of the stuff which came out of Belgium, Holland, and Scandinavia at the same time. There were exceptions like 'Restless & Wild' era Accept, but Sinner, Rage, Running Wild etc did my head right in.
Just a question of taste i suppose, but it does strike me as odd that the German Trad Metal stuff did so little for me.
Motorised wrote:I'm guessing in time one will turn up for the new Black Sabbath albums. I don't use torrents but I'm guessing they come on to YouTube. I'll have to look for an "fan fix" of Death Magnetic as I've only heard the original version. I just don't understand the purpose of making it louder, it's just annoying that I have to adjust my speakers. Apart from Metallica's "Death Magnetic" and Black Sabbath's "13" is there any others that have been affected?
That's alright, music is very personal and everyone has their own tastes. You even gave up a free ticket? Wow! Mind you if there a free ticket for a black metal or death metal artist I wouldn't go so it's the same concept.
I don't judge what others like unless they start attacking my taste in music. There are people out there that are ignorant like those people who comment on YouTube and have arguments about petty things.
Haha, oh wow! I have never heard any Gamma Ray material so I cannot comment. I have wanted to have a listen to them along with another few hundred bands I've been meaning to listen to haha.
I love the German heavy metal. I've noticed that there are things that put people off of certain things such as a particular place (bad memory or something), something that a band member has done, lyrics, style or just the sound isn't someone's thing. I'm not too familiar with the 1970s to 2000s period of Belgium, Holland, and Scandinavia apart from the black metal scene.
I'll check out those artists that you mentioned. I have heard of Running Wild and they are awesome! Haha.
riptorn wrote:I'm not up to speed on the fine details, but i understand that the technique causes the upper frequencies to all but disappear from the recordings.
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07 Oct 2013, 00:25
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